Johnson rejects Sturgeon's indyref2 demand
14/01/2020 | news | uk | 7,149
Boris Johnson confirms he will not agree to Nicola Sturgeon's request for a second independence referendum.
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14/01/2020 11:32:24 1503 240
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Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland.
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14/01/2020 11:36:26 50 21
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1. Posted by BWhit480 Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland. >>> Doesn't the same logic apply to the conservatives, the GE and Brexit?
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14/01/2020 11:36:26 37 25
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1. Posted byBWhit480on 1 minute ago "Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue". Given that there was no majority at the last GE to support brexit, why are we going ahead with it, what's the difference?
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14/01/2020 11:39:17 13 11
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1. BWhit480 Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland. In that case, the 43% the Tories got means there is no mandate for Brexit either - 54% voted remain
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14/01/2020 11:39:37 9 5
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#1 "Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue." There wasn't majority support for the Tories either - parties supporting a People's Vote got that.
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14/01/2020 11:40:58 17 2
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1.Posted by BWhit480 The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland. ---- The voting system we have is the only reason the Conservatives have a large majority of seats in Parliament. 30% of the electorate voted Tory in the 2019 General Election. Democracy - means whatever suits the troll
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14/01/2020 11:48:52 2 1
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"1. Posted byBWhit480on Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence. The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland." Bwahahahahaha. So by that logic there was no majority support for Brexit in the last GE either.
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14/01/2020 11:50:33 11 0
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@ 1. BWhit480 "The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland." --- It's also the only reason that the Conservatives have a majority of MP's accross the UK. That aside, i do not believe that the SNP currently have a mandate for a referendum.
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14/01/2020 11:52:23 4 6
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"1. Posted byBWhit480on The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland." Bwahahahahaha. The voting system we have is the only reason the Tories have a large majority of seats in the UK. You couldn't make this shit up.
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14/01/2020 12:03:29 12 4
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@1 Posted by BWhit480 “The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland” For that matter, the voting system we have is the only reason we have a demented primadonna as PM.
751
14/01/2020 12:13:31 18 7
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"1. BWhit480 Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. ...." Given that the Tories got just 43% of the vote in the recent GE, on that basis Boris has no majority support or political legitimacy for Brexit or denying the Scots another vote.
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14/01/2020 11:58:07 6 9
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Scotland won't tolerate being dictated to by Westminster like this. Boris knows full well that the Scottish people were promised many things that simply weren't true pre Indy Ref 1 and being taken out of the EU against our will gives us the perfect mandate for an Indy Ref 2. This just emphasizes the fact that the Tories couldn't care less even in the wake of the recent landslide SNP election#INDY2
14/01/2020 12:27:22 16 4
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@1 Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. If that's the way it works (which it isn't) the Tories had 43.6% of the vote, their biggest political issue is Brexit, ergo there's no majority support for it.
14/01/2020 12:22:05 2 6
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1. Posted by BWhit480 on this basis then tories DONT have any mandate for Brexit because they only got %43 of the UK vote so even less % than SNP got. The voting system we have is ONLY reason bojo has a majority in UK. You not very clever are you with comments like that. Tory logic lets make it up as we go along! Face the facts, England being a dictator again!
14/01/2020 12:36:36 11 5
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1. BWhit480 Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland. ---- By that logic, there is no support for a Tory government (43% of votes).
14/01/2020 12:41:39 7 6
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1: actually we can take your lands, AND we can control your freedom... 2: no...means no 3: you can complain all you like :- thats democracy in action 4: Try,Try,Try again....hasn't been a great policy over the last 700 years. 5: it's not 'your' country, it's a union..so it's 'ours'. 6: if we could cut it free and push it away - we would have long ago.
14/01/2020 12:42:09 7 7
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Let me explain for our English friends... in 2014, no body in Scotland believed that Brexit would be a reality so it wasn't an issue in the first indy ref. Now it is a reality. indy ref #1 ->brexit -> Indy ref #2 No brexit = no indy ref #2. It really is that simple
14/01/2020 13:15:16 13 2
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"1. BWhit480 Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election, there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats" Your post also works if you substitute Tories and Brexit for SNP and Independence, yet De Pfeffel thinks he can do what he likes
14/01/2020 13:19:28 5 3
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"1. Posted by BWhit480 on 2 hours ago Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland." Assume this comment is a joke - this equally applies to the Tories.
14/01/2020 13:35:06 10 5
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"1. Posted byBWhit480on Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue." Given there was no majority support for pro-brexit parties at the last election (43% of UK votes) there is also no majority support for the Tories biggest issue So cancel brexit right?
14/01/2020 13:41:30 5 2
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"1. Posted byBWhit480on 2 hours ago Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue." And yet the Tories 43% in England is a sweeping mandate to do whatever they want. It wasn't a 2 question ref. There was a lot to chose from. This is a top rated comment too!
14/01/2020 14:01:12 12 2
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1 generation is lets sat 30 years.....so weee Nicky and SNP liars come back in 2044 and yes you can have another once in a generation independence referendum. Until then get on with your devolved powers that you aren't delivering.
14/01/2020 14:42:11 4 9
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1. Posted byBWhit480on 3 hours ago "The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland." Let me correct that for you: "The voting system we have is the only reason the Conservatives have a large majority of seats in the UK." It's also the reason why most of Europe thinks the UK is still living in the 19th century. Which it is.
14/01/2020 15:06:53 4 14
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Scotland will save as a future member of the EU. 1. Defence. England will take back her nukes and pay Scotland for our share in their development as a UK deterrent. We will join the EU combined defence force @ 1/27th the cost of the MOD 2. Agencies & Quango's. We will be back in the EU and have over 350 EU agencies looking after our every need. 3. Euro. Easy trade with Ireland
14/01/2020 15:55:18 24 4
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New SNP Manifesto to be issued 1-Just blame everything on WM 2 - demand Indyref2 3 - claim grievance about anything WM does 4 - Disagree with anything WM does 5 - Ignore anything bad in Scotland or blame WM or Brexit 6 - Anything good is down to SNP policies 7 - claim to represent all of Scotland 8 - say we have a clear mandate for everything 9 - Use #1 if struggling
14/01/2020 15:58:50 7 8
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1 " No majority for the SNP at last month's election". I hope you will bear in mind that there was nothing like a majority for the Tories so they should stop behaving as if most people had voted for either them or Brexit.
14/01/2020 18:23:04 8 1
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1 certainty if England had a vote the Scots would be out on their ear.
14/01/2020 23:19:07 1 3
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1. Posted byBWhit480on "The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland." Do the folk upvoting this comment realise that it applies just as much to the election of a Tory government? Makes you wonder......
LOL wee Nicola Krankie will be spitting fury at this news. Let's just sit back and enjoy the hissy fit from Bute House later. What are you going to threaten next Nicola - a march on York and war with the English? It's all you've got left! Removed
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JW
14/01/2020 12:08:31 29 5
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I am pro Union and pro EU. I think the Scots do have an argument for a fresh referendum but trying to have it now before anyone knows what the post Brexit UK will look like is purely a political manouver by the SNP As much as I dislike Johnson I think he is right to refuse it. Scotland needs to wait at least 5 years for the dust to settle. Then have Ref2 and if they vote out; good on them!
14/01/2020 13:56:17 16 9
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sturgeon to Naff off.Boris has bigger matters to deal with than stupid inde Ref2
14/01/2020 14:00:19 5 5
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We Scots have this in our own control - tactical voting by the other parties coming together for the good of the country. Would bring an end to this endless droning on about Ref 2 at the expense of the country economically and socially - time for change Scotland, and for the better. One Scotland not this divided nation we currently are!
14/01/2020 14:58:59 10 0
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Leonard to Sturgeon If you get 2million of the 4 plus million Scottish Electors to vote for you next year, I will support your Indy Ref 2 With only one condition If you fail to get even half of the Scottish Electorate to vote for you, you will resign.
14/01/2020 15:05:33 5 3
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Let’s really muddy the waters and give Parliament a vote and if they vote not to give Scotland Indy ref 2 then they cannot ask again for 100 years to stop all this rubbish
14/01/2020 15:15:48 3 7
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The tory party stood for NO to indy ref2 in the GE how many seats did they win OR should I say how many were LOST. The SNP stood FOR indy ref2 how seats did they loose or should I say how many did they win. Looking at the results it says that more people voted for indy ref2 than against or cant you count.
14/01/2020 15:37:09 13 1
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2 minds. Times have changed dramatically so the choice made pre brexit wasnt informed based on brexit BUT This **** stirrer would ask for a new ref every year or 2 given the chance and a 2nd sets a precedent that she can use new legislation to justify further ones ad nauseum
14/01/2020 17:05:46 8 3
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Mandate for Indy Ref2? Ian Blackford is my MP and in his election leaflets (I got 3) there was no mention of Indy Ref2. How is that a mandate?
fos
14/01/2020 18:09:20 11 7
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Why do the SNP assume people who happen to live in Scotland now have the right to cede.Last time even people born there were denied a vote while migrants just arrived decided things. Could Londoners do the same or Yorkshire maybe some little village or maybe our house? Scotland belongs to every Brit not just someone living there.We voted a government in who promised no indie ref 2 so that’s it.
14/01/2020 18:44:40 10 2
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Now that ref2 has been put on the back burner for a couple of years AUOB could be supplied with pothole repairing materials, make themselves useful during the treks?
14/01/2020 18:46:01 5 9
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Whether it be a re-run of the Scottish Independence referendum or the badly flawed Brexit Referendum, Johnson and co don't do them in case they lose... Which they would have done if the Dec election had actually been run under the same rules as the 2016 referendum. 53% Remain or Ref2 (Parties) vs 47% Leave (Tory & Brexit Parties). It's a Fact so don't go shouting at me! look it up on YouGov.
14/01/2020 19:11:44 13 5
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The EU referendum result is just an excuse for an Indy ref2. If Sturgeon believed in the UK she would accept that overall the UK voted to leave, and that therefore the will of the majority takes precedence over the will of any 1 of the 4 nations. If Scotland had voted to leave and the rest of the UK to remain she would now be campaigning to leave the EU via an Indyref2. It's so transparent.
14/01/2020 19:48:43 5 2
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and if it was Corbyn that won the election, the date for ref2 would be set
14/01/2020 19:54:06 4 11
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Touting old ref results is desperate skullduggery. Reaults do not always remain the same. They are a snapshot in time. We had a GE not a Ref2 because the Tories knew they could lose a referendum whereas they were nailed on to win a GE where the main opposition was Corbyn. So they kept touring an out of date ref result. If you are sure Ref2 would return the same result, why not have it?
14/01/2020 20:28:23 9 6
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If Scotland & NI want to leave the UK let them. Considering England and Wales voted to leave the EU it is hypocritical to prevent an Indy Ref 2.
14/01/2020 21:15:27 10 5
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Ref2 being delayed by a few years is probably a great thing for SNP and Sturgeon, gives them extra time to come up with answers to the major issues concerning our economy pathway. They seem to struggle with this.
14/01/2020 22:19:10 11 14
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The Tories told all of Scotland of you vote to stay in the UK we would stay in Europe. As we all know this was a lie and allows the SNP have a reason to ask for Indy ref 2. The Tories will just get up our backs and the SNP will just get more support. Boris is a joke north of the border and will do absolutely SFA for Scotland. Ps I voted no but now would vote yes because of Brexit.
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14/01/2020 11:32:44 30 14
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unlucky
14/01/2020 15:44:03 4 4
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3 Rate comment number 3963 negatively Number of negative ratings for comment 3963: 4 Comment number 3962. Posted by geoff on 1 minute ago nor should Scotland get one. they had one a few years ago and the result was to stay in the union. sorry but suck it up. -- We were promised in 2014 that the only way to stay in the EU was to stay in the UK. That has now changed.
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14/01/2020 11:32:44 22 8
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BBC opening comments on this one..? well, best of luck.
SP
14/01/2020 19:35:16 10 6
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4 goals in first month 1. CERTAINITY in Northern Ireland 2. CERTAINITY in Scotland 3. CERTAINITY for flybe employees 4. Brexit bill passed commons What a difference a majority govt makes when compared to the past 3 years of sickening hung parliament Of course SNP will hate anything good happening to UK. Even a child knows success of SNP almost completely depends on failure of UK
SP
14/01/2020 20:03:20 22 5
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4 goals in first month  1. CERTAINITY in Northern Ireland  2. CERTAINITY in Scotland  3. CERTAINITY for flybe employees  4. Brexit bill passed commons What a difference a majority govt makes when compared to the past 3 years of sickening hung parliament Of course SNP will hate anything good happening to UK. Even a child knows success of SNP almost completely depends on failure of UK
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14/01/2020 11:33:04 1997 348
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A crackingly good letter Boris. Get on with your day job Nicola and sort Scotland out.
14/01/2020 12:35:56 8 5
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5. Posted byRed Neck A crackingly good letter Boris. Get on with your day job Nicola and sort Scotland out. -- 530 liked this post, unfortunately Scotland is performing BETTER than England on all aspects - and yes figures are down - due to Tory austerity. I wonder if these 530 also though BREXIT was a good idea? And the food banks and the trebled national debt - keep taking the tabloids.
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14/01/2020 11:33:04 195 640
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The last result was based on Cameron's "pledge". The last votes had not even been counted before it was shredded. That invalidated the vote, I'd say.
14/01/2020 22:28:45 2 12
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All Westminster SNP MP’s withdraw from Westminster. Nicola Sturgeon resigns as First Minister and leader of SNP. Scottish Government resigns and calls a election. SNP elect another leader (one who never said generational referendum). Election is fought on mandate for a second Indy ref. 6. If pro independence parties win majority section 30 order demanded 7. If refused; civil disobedience.
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14/01/2020 11:33:14 50 115
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I think it's the correct decision at the moment. If Brexit turns out badly then there will be more reason for the Scots to have another referendum.
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14/01/2020 11:33:14 2071 366
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They had their referendum, and the result should be respected.
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14/01/2020 11:35:46 92 177
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@8. Tommo781 "They had their referendum, and the result should be respected." Except the terms of vote to say stated that the UK would be remaining in the EU. The terms of the first Indy referendum have been breached and as such they should be allowed to have a second as it is no longer a legitimate result.
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14/01/2020 11:53:34 6 5
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@8. Tommo781 They had their referendum, and the result should be respected. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Scottish voted remain, so their vote should indeed be respected, but is it?
14/01/2020 13:33:15 10 5
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"8. Posted byTommo781on 2 hours ago They had their referendum, and the result should be respected." As much as all the promises and commitments made before it should be honored?
14/01/2020 14:37:18 6 3
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"8. Posted by Tommo781 They had their referendum, and the result should be respected." How about the promise to the Scottish people that voting "No" in 2014 would guarantee that Scotland stays in the EU? Shouldn't all promises also be respected? Or only votes won on false promises?
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14/01/2020 11:33:34 1189 183
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Good. Hopefully the SNP will get on with the day job
14/01/2020 13:06:52 18 8
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9am on the first day of Scottish independence - Salmondy released from jail. 9.05am - Scotland files for bankruptcy.
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14/01/2020 11:33:34 321 1116
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So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards.
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14/01/2020 11:38:37 101 11
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To #10. Both of those decisions were made by voters, not by government. You can't ask for democracy and then not respect it when it's delivered.
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14/01/2020 11:51:53 5 3
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@10. Geoffrey Kitching So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards. You are assuming that Scotland wants to leave the UK. The SNP might, but Scotland probably doesn't. As per the last 'once in a lifetime' referendum.
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14/01/2020 12:02:49 52 12
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10. Geoffrey Kitching So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards. --- How can it be double standards when, in both instances, both outcomes merely respect the results of a referendum? It's called democracy.
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14/01/2020 12:03:49 11 7
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"10. Posted by Geoffrey Kitchingon - So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards." Yes it's OK - because it's all about the democratic majority, not the whingeing minority. Welcome to the idea of democracy.
14/01/2020 12:32:14 32 9
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10. Geoffrey Kitchingon "So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards." 1. It's OK for Scotland to have a vote on the matter. It did. 2. It's OK for the whole of the UK to have a vote on the matter. It did. 3. For democracy's sake, both votes should be upheld. They are.
14/01/2020 12:54:46 30 9
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10. Geoffrey Kitching "So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards." Both questions were put to referendum, and the majority votes in each of those referendums are being respected and acted upon - no double standards there.
14/01/2020 13:12:55 4 1
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"10. Posted byGeoffrey Kitchingon 2 hours ago So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards." Half right!
14/01/2020 13:27:02 7 4
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#10 "So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards." The previous referendum on EEC membership was 41 years before the 2016 referendum. The last referendum on Scottish independence was five years ago! Compare like with like. The first is most certainly a generation in anybody's eyes; the second is only a generation for small animals!
14/01/2020 14:03:51 21 3
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10. Posted by Geoffrey Kitching on 2 hours ago So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards. The UK is leaving the EU because that’s what the UK people voted for. Scotland is staying in the UK because that’s what the Scottish people voted for. It’s called democracy, though your grasp of the principle seems tenuous.
Tom
14/01/2020 14:22:14 3 4
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10. Posted by Geoffrey Kitching on 3 hours ago So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards. aka the results of the recently held referenda
14/01/2020 15:58:10 8 3
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10. Geoffrey Kitching - "So its okay for UK to leave the EU, but not okay for Scotland to leave the UK? Double standards." The UK voted to leave the EU. In 2014, Scotland voted decisively to stay in the UK. N S disrespects and disregards any vote that does not provide the result she wants. Sturgeon has relentlessly been trying to overturn democracy since 2014. It's breathtaking hypocrisy.
14/01/2020 16:40:32 23 3
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@10. Posted byGeoffrey Kitching Not double standards at all. The UK voted to leave the EU, Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK. You can't keep having referendums until you get the vote that you want.
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14/01/2020 11:33:34 2453 476
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Seems like a perfectly reasonable response to me. Thank you Boris! (from the silent majority in Edinburgh)
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14/01/2020 11:42:29 9 16
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11. Pragmatist Seems like a perfectly reasonable response to me. Thank you Boris! (from the silent majority in Edinburgh) -- Where was that silent majority during the election?
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14/01/2020 12:11:53 7 1
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@11 Pragmatist and many others. The issue is that the SNP aren't going away any time soon, if you indeed are the "silent majority" why have the SNP won every popular vote in Scotland since 2014? If you genuinely are a "silent majority" I suggest you prove it, as if there are any issues with Brexit, the Tories only have 6 MPs to defend in Scotland, so who's getting thrown under the bus?
14/01/2020 13:06:52 2 6
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11. Posted byPragmatist Do you honestly believe this is a Union of equals, can you honestly say that with your hand on your heart? And you're not speaking on behalf of the silent majority from Edinburgh, you can only speak for yourself and no one else.
14/01/2020 13:46:12 3 11
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11. Posted byPragmatiston 2 hours ago Seems like a perfectly reasonable response to me. Thank you Boris! (from the silent majority in Edinburgh) Ah yes Edinburgh. The London of Scotland. Maybe you should stop being so silent and organise like the 80-100k people did in Glasgow last weekend. Come out and tell us how your life is better since 2014.
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14/01/2020 11:33:44 1815 309
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I still don't understand the argument for Scottish Independence when it all revolves around joining yet another union anyway
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14/01/2020 11:51:33 8 9
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12. adambadun "I still don't understand the argument for Scottish Independence when it all revolves around joining yet another union anyway" Maybe people should be free to decide which particular union they belong to in a democracy? But of course these days "democracy" means doing exactly what a vocal group of bitter, tired old men want. Your time is short. Literally.
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14/01/2020 12:15:35 54 11
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@12 adambadun "I still don't understand the argument for Scottish Independence when it all revolves around joining yet another union anyway" --- You said it. Especially when, in the other union, power is going in one direction only - towards Brussels - whereas it has been steadily devolving away from Westminster. It makes a mockery of the SNP arguments for self-determination, doesn't it?
14/01/2020 13:52:45 11 7
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"12. Posted byadambadunon 2 hours ago I still don't understand the argument for Scottish Independence when it all revolves around joining yet another union anyway" Flip that logic round and see how ridiculous it sounds: "Let's leave the EU and go it alone!" "No no Scotland you can't go it alone and should be part of the union that is the UK." ??
14/01/2020 14:37:08 2 2
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#12 "I still don't understand the argument for Scottish Independence when it all revolves around joining yet another union anyway" EU - choosing to be an equal partner in a wider union of nations (with the same veto and protections as everyone else) UK - being treated as a region, rather than a country, in a non-equal partnership dominated by one member I know which I'd rather be in
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14/01/2020 11:33:44 184 541
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Even the rejection contains a lie...
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14/01/2020 11:33:55 1361 248
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Great. Now they can all pipe down & Sturgeon, Blackford can get on with helping Scotland, from its current state, with appalling health, education etc. It makes me laugh how they bleat on about independence, but would seek to pimp Scotland to the shady Eurocrats in Brussels, giving up freedom and sovereignty, to substitute English for EU donations, to prevent immediate bankruptcy!
14/01/2020 12:42:39 11 8
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Queen Nik does not get it. She says Ref14 said staying in EU. May be. But 31st January we are out. So even if Scots get a vote after that date they would need to reapply to the EU. They would fail, unless EU breaks their own rules, because Scots have not got their own currency or central bank, and the Spanish would veto their entry as they will not encourage separatists, like their own Basques.
Dear Jimmy Wee Sturgeon, get lost, love Uncle Boris. P.s. you know when you slagged me off every week on TV, this is payback my dear little hobgoblin. Bye, BJ. Removed
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14/01/2020 11:33:55 218 868
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its coming whether you like it or not Boris.....
14/01/2020 15:53:58 13 4
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16. simmie1903 >its coming whether you like it or not Boris..... I suggest you read his letter again
14/01/2020 19:51:04 11 2
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16. Posted by simmie1903 on 8 hours ago its coming whether you like it or not Boris..... - It's not Boris you have to convince it's you own people you dummy
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GW
14/01/2020 11:34:15 127 30
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Good.
14/01/2020 16:40:53 20 2
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17.Sept. 2014 "Alex Salmond pledged there would be no second referendum for "a generation", even if he lost by one vote.The Edinburgh agreement, signed by the UK and the Scottish governments, was aimed at producing a "fair and decisive outcome". Each party has made clear they will abide by the result, even if it is 50% either way plus a single vote". As reported by the Guardian Nicola S!
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rmw
14/01/2020 11:34:15 1116 175
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Good thing too. Best for Scotland. Best for UK.
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14/01/2020 11:34:15 1256 208
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Nice reply, Boris - no bluster, just pointing out that it was a "once in a lifetime"....
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14/01/2020 11:34:15 1124 158
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Well, by the SNPs own admission the last IndyRef in 2014 was "once in a generation".
14/01/2020 13:26:32 7 2
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20. Posted by Spinsty on 2 hours ago Well, by the SNPs own admission the last IndyRef in 2014 was "once in a generation". The way the SNP run the NHS in Scotland, 6 years is a generation....
14/01/2020 14:43:11 5 7
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20. Posted by Spinsty on 3 hours ago Well, by the SNPs own admission the last IndyRef in 2014 was "once in a generation". --- Only if there was "no material change" in circumstance. Brexit means there is! Unsurprisingly, Johnson forgets to mention that bit in his letter.
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14/01/2020 11:34:15 11 21
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Once in a generation so 16 more years of verbal grief from Sturgeon or her successor. Is it worth it?
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14/01/2020 11:34:35 236 620
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The understanding was that the UK would remain in the EU but that has now been broken.
14/01/2020 14:34:07 3 1
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22. Posted by Lone Voice Another broken record. No where was such an understanding committed to. NS get on delivering what you are suppose to deliver if you cant then resign NOW along with your whole party and promise never to re-enter politics ever again, well that will be at least 10min
14/01/2020 19:41:59 13 3
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@22. Lone Voice ''The understanding was that the UK would remain in the EU but that has now been broken. '' _____ No such understanding whatsoever. There was no referendum for independence - as long as the UK stayed in the EU at all! I voted in that referendum. It was a once in a lifetime vote. I voted FOR independence but 100% respect the majority vote.
23
DJL
14/01/2020 11:34:35 23 42
bbc
Should we now ditch all things Scottish tainted by the SNP. They have stolen our Saltire and our voice. Do we need to ditch St Andrew and now go for a Saint Boris!
24
14/01/2020 11:34:35 513 73
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Since the SNP doesn't have a majority of the vote, the original vote should be respected.
109
14/01/2020 11:38:57 13 18
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24. Posted bySnowDogon Since the SNP doesn't have a majority of the vote, the original vote should be respected. The tories dont have a majority % either so your argument makes no sense. Absolute nonsense by PM its only going to increase the bitterness. Brexit has completely changed everything and the vote from 2014 is null and void due to the promise to remain in the EU now broken.
261
14/01/2020 11:47:31 9 4
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24. SnowDog Since the SNP doesn't have a majority of the vote, the original vote should be respected. ---- The Conservatives don't have a majority of the vote in either Scotland (25.1%) or the UK (43.6%). So what's your point?
25
14/01/2020 11:34:35 513 86
bbc
Well done Boris
26
14/01/2020 11:34:35 41 42
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Why did he get a 2 year old to sign it for him?
Go Boris!! Telt! Now, Nippy, go and fix the debacles across Scotland that you and your cult have created Removed
28
14/01/2020 11:34:55 73 27
bbc
Once in a lifetime referendum is correct providing you measure the lifetime of sheep..... Which is about right for the SNP.
29
14/01/2020 11:34:55 21 33
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See you in court...
30
14/01/2020 11:35:05 189 594
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Tories are terrified of an independent Scotland!
225
14/01/2020 11:45:20 16 2
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@30 Why would the Tories be terrified of an independent Scotland? Their majority would increase by 50 at a stroke plus they would dave billions on paying for Scotland's subsidies. They could also bring back all the government jobs back to the rest of the UK. HMRC could relocate from Glasgow to northern England. See how SNP do in 2021 election include a 2nd indy vote in their manifesto.
586
14/01/2020 12:04:19 12 9
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30. U17318724 Tories are terrified of an independent Scotland! -- Erm, no they're not. Scotland spend more per person and bring in less tax per person than rest of UK, meaning they are contributing heavily to UK deficit. Also majority of Scots appear not to want independence anyway.
14/01/2020 13:31:45 16 16
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#30 "Tories are terrified of an independent Scotland!" Why would anyone be terrified of an insignificant little country? We became the most powerful nation on earth as a union. Scottish nationalists, as usual, overestimate their own significance. They see England as a small appendage to the south of Scotland. It's frankly laughable how self-important they are.
14/01/2020 13:41:09 13 8
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@30 It is many of us Scots that are also terrified of independence. It's the biggest smokescreen and red herring in modern Scottish political history. We had a "once in a generation" vote - and we voted to remain part of the UK. Last time I checked a generation is say 20 or 25 years - not every few years till the SNP get the result they want.
#30 "Tories are terrified of an independent Scotland." If the Nats get their way and set up the Peoples' Republic of Jockastan: no £9 billion via Barnett, no currency, no lender of last resort, crumbling NHS, illiterate and innumerate school leavers, knife crime, drug crisis, higher taxes, bigger State, more bureaucracy, a Finance Minister with no formal qualification. Yeh, petrified.... Removed
31
14/01/2020 11:35:05 20 22
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Scottish UDI on the horizon then...
520
14/01/2020 12:00:07 5 4
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31/1 Brexit leave EU ???? Feb ?????????????? budget March & April? Dec 31 - leave EU rules???? 2021 might show true support for SNP (without block Boris & Stop Brexit voters) Tick Tock...
32
14/01/2020 11:35:05 216 45
bbc
oh good grief, sturgeon and blackford be going full Braveheart on this, cue more demands and threats from "the sovereign people of scottyland"
33
14/01/2020 11:35:05 95 39
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A lot of English people will be disappointed.
34
14/01/2020 11:35:05 39 11
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How long before Ms Sturgeon takes it to court? William Hill not taking bets.
35
14/01/2020 11:35:05 573 80
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How many referendums do they want? 55% of Scotland are not with the SNP.
14/01/2020 16:52:19 9 12
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35. Bungomoobear "How many referendums do they want? 55% of Scotland are not with the SNP" 74% of the UK were not on for Brexit but it happened anyway.
36
14/01/2020 11:35:05 632 85
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The SNP should respect democracy. They said that the 2014 was a once in a generation referendum, and Scotland voted fairly and squarely to remain in the UK. A generation is a lot longer than 5 years.
37
14/01/2020 11:35:15 44 17
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Mandate not achieved yet by SNP, Sturgeon will have to bite the bullet, or UDI or waste court time and money.
38
14/01/2020 11:35:15 110 49
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Should let the whole UK vote on this. What value do the rest of us get from supporting Scotland?
39
14/01/2020 11:35:15 98 32
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Excellent news. That's another election promise kept. Shame the SNP don't want to keep their promises - we didn't mean once in a generation.
40
14/01/2020 11:35:15 63 128
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So no ref as it was once in a gen, grow up, this is anti Democratic and an unsustainable position - this time its for a referendum but what about Brexit, bedroom tax, GERS and all the other scams Westminster pull. We will have the right to self determination!
41
14/01/2020 11:35:25 71 151
bbc
Well that's Scottish voters driven further and further into the SNP camp and the SNP's line about Scotland's lack of power and say in the UK abundantly conformed. Effectively, Scotland is now being held hostage.
14/01/2020 12:44:00 13 3
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41. Posted by Stewart Ellinson on 1 hour ago Effectively, Scotland is now being held hostage. Only in your mind. Try a different view, emancipate yourself from all the hate, bitterness and spite, victimhood mentality that so many of you have. You can't leave, so make the best of a bad job, understand that can' really go anyway because you are part of the UK land mass, and smile.
14/01/2020 12:48:52 3 0
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41. Stewart Ellinson Effectively, Scotland is now being held hostage.' Not really, only to those that want independence. Scotland has a similar division of preference as does the UK for Brexit or not. Leavers do not represent the views of Remainers. You have an impasse but the binding resolution by Salmond and Sturg to remain in the Union. I do see ructions ahead though.
42
14/01/2020 11:35:25 36 13
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That letter will be meat and drink to the SNP.
43
14/01/2020 11:35:25 15 2
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Well colour me surprised
44
14/01/2020 11:35:35 30 62
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So its ok for Harry and Megan to leave, but not Scotland.. Double standards here!
45
14/01/2020 11:35:35 70 14
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If there is a 2nd referendum and Sturgeon loses (if she wins good for her, that's democracy) will she resign and be quiet?
46
14/01/2020 11:35:46 274 53
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Good. Perhaps Queen Nic can start doing her day job properly. Once she has shown she can use the powers she has properly, then she can ask for more.
47
14/01/2020 11:35:46 523 83
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Once in a Generation, that is what BOTH Salmond and Sturgeon agreed to as the condition for a referendum. Scotland voted to remain. It is the duty of Parliament to uphold that. If Nicola Sturgeon cannot do that she needs to resign with immediate effect OR we are entitled to call her a liar. She cannot undo something she agreed with to get the first referendum. She is a disgrace to the Scots !
48
Eli
bbc
They could turn into another IRA G-d forbid Removed
49
14/01/2020 11:35:46 93 14
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Boris pointing out that promisses have to be kept...
8
14/01/2020 11:33:14 2071 366
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They had their referendum, and the result should be respected.
50
14/01/2020 11:35:46 92 177
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@8. Tommo781 "They had their referendum, and the result should be respected." Except the terms of vote to say stated that the UK would be remaining in the EU. The terms of the first Indy referendum have been breached and as such they should be allowed to have a second as it is no longer a legitimate result.
522
14/01/2020 12:00:17 4 0
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50. Orwellian. The ballot paper said "Should Scotland be an independent country" Nothing else.
51
14/01/2020 11:35:46 152 31
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One question Sturgeon cannot answer is the currency issue. She has no answer and until otherwise, cannot be independent. Stop your personal crusade and get on with day job!!
52
14/01/2020 11:35:46 332 85
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Boris is a true statesman Nicola is in a state
53
14/01/2020 11:35:56 35 30
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The actual quote from Alex Salmond on the Marr show was 'In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, this is a once in a generation vote' Apparently the Tories have a 'strong mandate' for voting through a hard Brexit deal when they have the same share of the vote as the SNP do in Scotland.
54
14/01/2020 11:35:56 298 53
bbc
I wholeheartedly agree with the contents of Boris' letter and would suggest that Sturgeon falls on her sword and resigns.
55
DCM
14/01/2020 11:35:56 12 9
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Time for another 'Darien scheme', eh, Nicola..? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme
56
14/01/2020 11:36:16 11 4
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There may be trouble ahead.
57
14/01/2020 11:36:16 38 40
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BWhit480...Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. == So that means that there is no majority support for EU exit either. (43% for the Tories, 2% for Brexit Party)
14/01/2020 13:56:58 8 0
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@57 So that means that there is no majority support for EU exit either. (43% for the Tories, 2% for Brexit Party) *** Correct - you've got it! The election did not give a mandate for Brexit. The referendum did that (I say that as a remainer). Just like the IndyRef gave the mandate for Scotland remaining in the Union for at least a generation.
58
14/01/2020 11:36:16 118 26
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Good stuff. You can't have a successful, wealthy country if constituent parts of that country are granted divisive independence referendums every 5-6 years to satisfy a bunch of crazed nationalists who in this case blame Scotland's woes (which are almost entirely the SNP's fault as they've been in power for ages with lots of autonomy) on 'Westminster' and 'the English'.
1
14/01/2020 11:32:24 1503 240
bbc
Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland.
59
14/01/2020 11:36:26 50 21
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1. Posted by BWhit480 Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland. >>> Doesn't the same logic apply to the conservatives, the GE and Brexit?
1
14/01/2020 11:32:24 1503 240
bbc
Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue. The voting system we have is the only reason the SNP have a large majority of seats in Scotland.
60
14/01/2020 11:36:26 37 25
bbc
1. Posted byBWhit480on 1 minute ago "Given there was no majority support for the SNP at the last election (45% of Scottish votes), there is no majority support for independence if that is their biggest political issue". Given that there was no majority at the last GE to support brexit, why are we going ahead with it, what's the difference?
61
Ian
14/01/2020 11:36:26 190 43
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The poor Sturgeon has found out that she's only a big fish in a small pool and there are much bigger fish than her.
62
14/01/2020 11:36:26 25 7
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Suits Nicola perfectly. She can't be seen by her core Vote to be not asking, so now she can again (luckily) blame the Tories for not allowing one. Simple really.
63
14/01/2020 11:36:26 68 38
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Keep up the good work Boris
64
14/01/2020 11:36:46 179 36
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Fandabbydozee.
65
14/01/2020 11:36:46 33 22
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I wonder how Westminster would react to this rather uncooperative stance to a 'partner' if it were Brussels saying it to them.
66
14/01/2020 11:36:46 10 9
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Wait.....isn't it the will of the people?
67
14/01/2020 11:36:46 295 53
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As he should. The SNP should be improving the lives of Scottish residents, which they have been abject failures in up to now, instead of wasting more time and money on an unwanted separation from their largest market and setting Scot against Scot yet again. Once in a lifetime, remember?
68
AG
14/01/2020 11:36:46 161 35
bbc
Inevitable response. SNP do not have a credible plan. Currency? Re-admittance to EU when for example Spain will do anything not to give hope to the Catalans? Budget deficit?
69
14/01/2020 11:36:46 768 100
bbc
On behalf of the silent majority in Aberdeen: Good.
88
14/01/2020 11:37:57 25 13
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"69. Posted byExelsizoron Just now On behalf of the silent majority in Aberdeen: Good." You can't speak for the silent majority. That's not how being silent works.
159
14/01/2020 11:41:28 15 10
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69. Posted byExelsizor On behalf of the silent majority in Aberdeen: Good. ---- Always amuses me when people claim to speak on behalf of the 'silent' majority. Surely it's impossible to know what this fabled majority wants, they're silent after all.
14/01/2020 13:13:52 2 10
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"69. Posted by Exelsizor" On behalf of the silent majority in Aberdeen: Good. ------------- if you are a silent majority, then SHUT UP!
14/01/2020 16:14:28 7 2
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69. Posted byExelsizoron 5 hours ago On behalf of the silent majority in Aberdeen: Good. On behalf of the silent majority in Aberdeen driving a pristine personalised 4x4 ready to leave the country at a moment's notice if my oil job goes: Good. There, fixed it for ya :-)
14/01/2020 22:26:04 11 8
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"@69 Exelsizoron On behalf of the silent majority in Aberdeen: Good." First the Scottish Independence vote, then the EU referendum. Why do we, the MAJORITY, have to be silent?! Just because the losing side is louder, cos they are having infantile tantrums, does not make them the majority, or that they are right! Enough is enough!
70
14/01/2020 11:36:46 41 58
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Prime Minister Boris Johnson said a referendum would "continue the political stagnation Scotland has seen for the past decade". that’s a joke?? what about the same for the rest of the UK now being run by self-indulging, self-serving and with this a corrupt HoC which is not forced to do what it should - making democratic decisions derived from a balanced distribution of opinions and vote
145
14/01/2020 11:40:48 10 4
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@70. Posted by torsten what about the same for the rest of the UK now being run by self-indulging, self-serving and with this a corrupt HoC which is not forced to do what it should - making democratic decisions derived from a balanced distribution of opinions and vote That makes no sense,the current HOC was elected by a majority the old HOC was corrupt.
71
14/01/2020 11:37:06 114 36
bbc
Well done Boris. She needs to be put in her place and slapped down. there has been to much jumping to her tune and constant whining
Still no HYS on the most important story of the day - Harry and Megs. Removed
73
14/01/2020 11:37:06 26 12
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Imagine Boris had to ask the EU to hold the Leave referendum.
74
14/01/2020 11:37:06 29 35
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Stagnation sums up the political situation perfectly.I can't see that changing until we have independence.
75
14/01/2020 11:37:06 37 24
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(As an Englishman) Obviously I would like Scotland to stay with us. However, if a) polls suggest a solid Indy majority, and b) Brexit happens, then it's hard to rely on the 'once in a generation' argument against Indy2, given the material change in circumstances. Plus the UK relies very heavily on "right to self-determination" when it comes to our overseas territories (Gibraltar, Falklands etc)...
76
14/01/2020 11:37:06 82 27
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"But it's a material change" I can hear her saying. I recall quite clearly that the once in a generation referendum on indy had, in the background, the full knowledge that the UK was to hold a referendum on EU membership if the then PM Cameron couldn't get the changes he required and I can't recalling the SNP campaigning for in or out of the EU. They just kept quiet
105
14/01/2020 11:38:47 8 1
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76. Posted bynimrodon Just now False. The EU legislation could only be passed by a Conservative majority government, which occurred in 2015. (Lib Dem's blocked it in coalition).
77
14/01/2020 11:37:16 50 93
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Respect the vote we have had? Yes, fine. More than half of those who voted in Scotland in the 2016 referendum wanted to stay in the EU. Shouldn't we respect that vote?
138
14/01/2020 11:40:28 25 3
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@77. Two different things GK. The first was only open to those living in Scotland. The 2nd was open to the UK as a whole. 1st vote was to stay part of the UK. 2nd vote, overall, was to leave the EU. So, both results are being respected. Simples!!!!
158
14/01/2020 11:41:28 7 11
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77@Geoffrey Kitching Respect the vote we have had? Yes, fine. More than half of those who voted in Scotland in the 2016 referendum wanted to stay in the EU. Shouldn't we respect that vote? ---- No.
166
14/01/2020 11:41:48 16 5
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77. Posted byGeoffrey Kitching ................... But as you have been told before, the 2016 was for the whole of the UK not a part of it, thus the final tally indicated the majority wanted out. And, by the same democratic process, the Scottish ref' 2014 wanted to a stay in the UK.
78
14/01/2020 11:37:16 115 49
bbc
Scottish independence: UK government rejects Sturgeon's indyref2 demand. Well done Boris to put the despicable Sturgeon in her place. She must remember YOU are the boss.
79
14/01/2020 11:37:16 24 11
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Any vote should inclulde everyone in the UK not just those living in Scotland. IT will, after all, affect all of us living in the UK. And let the floodgates open!
80
14/01/2020 11:37:26 29 40
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They were promised that the only possible way for them to remain in the EU was to vote for staying in the UK. It's a completely different set of circumstances. Stop treating the Scottish people as thick. They've increased their vote share and have a bigger mandate than you do. Still, I'll give you one thing - you are at least consistent as you treat the whole of the UK as if they are thick too.
81
14/01/2020 11:37:26 36 49
bbc
oooh.. i smell Brex*hit... Didnt UK govt also tell us the union was the best way to stay in the EU? welcome to hell.
82
14/01/2020 11:37:26 311 57
bbc
I'm liking how Boris is doing things. Always polite and positive despite the opposition hate and aggressive language/behaviour. This is the right call for Scotland as well, the silent majority in Scotland know this.
83
14/01/2020 11:37:36 321 49
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Good. Time we stopped pandering to these immature nationalists. This whole independence malarkey is just a distraction from their incompetent track record in government.
183
14/01/2020 11:42:49 13 11
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83. Posted bySpare Head 3 Good. Time we stopped pandering to these immature nationalists. This whole independence malarkey is just a distraction from their incompetent track record in government. --- These immature nationalists that voted for BREXIT? The incompetent govt that has nearly tripled the national debt ? Oh, - hang on - thats the Tories.
84
14/01/2020 11:37:36 616 83
bbc
Well said Mr Johnson. Its time we ended this broken record. It is tedious to the vast majority of the rest of the UK to keep having to listen to this woman
417
14/01/2020 11:55:05 14 12
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@84.Steve "Well said Mr Johnson. Its time we ended this broken record. It is tedious to the vast majority of the rest of the UK to keep having to listen to this woman" Living in Perthshire, believe me, its equally as irksome to the majority of us in Scotland too!
85
14/01/2020 11:37:36 21 31
bbc
Why is Scotland politically stagnating - is it because of a lack of right wing neo liberal capitalists. Do one Bojo
86
14/01/2020 11:37:47 23 27
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Or to put it another way: Johnson promises to use English taxpayers money to subsidise Scots for a generation. I wonder what all the new Tory voters in the underfunded North of England think about this?
200
14/01/2020 11:43:49 4 4
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86 Who will they blame now "Or to put it another way: Johnson promises to use English taxpayers money to subsidise Scots for a generation." Jesus wept. How many times? If that were true then why would WM not just let Scotland go? Any good reasons? (It's certainly not for love)
87
14/01/2020 11:37:47 51 122
bbc
Bide your time Scotland, this setback is good news for you. It will allow you to build up even more support and the desire to leave will be even higher in five years when the next general election comes along. Many people down here will probably like to join you.
69
14/01/2020 11:36:46 768 100
bbc
On behalf of the silent majority in Aberdeen: Good.
88
14/01/2020 11:37:57 25 13
bbc
"69. Posted byExelsizoron Just now On behalf of the silent majority in Aberdeen: Good." You can't speak for the silent majority. That's not how being silent works.
89
14/01/2020 11:37:57 7 14
bbc
Think it would be more prudent to have the second ref, see it fail, then hopefully keep the SNP quiet for a couple of years at least.
90
14/01/2020 11:37:57 26 23
bbc
I think the argument is that there were assurances given regarding Scotland and the EU, 2 years later the UK votes to leave, Scotland itself to remain, the country feels it's being taken out of the EU against it's will and that's why the argument is for another referendum.
91
col
14/01/2020 11:38:07 13 47
bbc
BJ pledged that we will all be better of,that was a lie so 2nd referendum should be granted.Funny how the majority of the ENGLISH just love to bow at another mans feet, even when own family and friends die on our own streets.
92
rus
14/01/2020 11:38:07 14 15
bbc
I never read anything supporting the union on these pages...
93
14/01/2020 11:38:07 260 43
bbc
why should the scottish get a 2nd vote if there was no 2nd referendum? This woman should get going on with her day job rather than live in some fantasy world. You had one, you lost, now get on with your job.
94
14/01/2020 11:38:07 12 16
bbc
Give it to her, she'll lose and then she'll be gone.
95
14/01/2020 11:38:17 479 60
bbc
BJ Absolutely the right thing to do! NS/SNP do not speak for the majority of Scots - I am one of them We are generally embarrassed by the constant moaning and whingeing done by NS and IB. They constantly try to deflect everyone from their failed policies in Scotland, their inefficiency in managing the budget and their blatant avoidance of FOI requests. Roll on AS case and 2021 !
96
14/01/2020 11:38:17 582 75
bbc
Once in a generation is just that. Kids don't grow up in 6 years so the SNP can ask again when they get to the age they have their own kids. Around 25ish. We have all got sick and tired of the division caused by continual votes; Indy 2014, GE 2015, Brexit 2016, GE 2017, GE 2019. We've had enough! Time to get on and focus on schools, NHS and other such matters. Are you hearing Nicola?
97
14/01/2020 11:38:17 473 64
bbc
Brilliant response. No frills and zeros in on her parties failure in government. Well said Boris.. as if this nation hasn't had its fill of referendums and division
98
bbc
away with you, ya wee pest Removed
99
14/01/2020 11:38:17 160 29
bbc
Sturgeon must come to terms with the fact that Scotland is part of the UK. It is not her personal property to manipulate and change in accordance with her personal whims.
100
Al
bbc
Poor Scotland - shackled to a corpse Set them free. The Scots deserve a brighter future within Europe rather than being unwilling members of a union with the xenophobic, racist, misogynist little Englands. If we can let Meghan and Harry flee the miserable UK for a better future, why not Scotland? Removed